Episode: Why Vision Matters in Crisis

Michael Hyatt: Hi, I’m Michael Hyatt.

Megan Hyatt Miller: And I’m Megan Hyatt Miller.

Michael: And this is Lead to Win, our weekly podcast to help you win at work and succeed at life. Today I want to talk to you about something that is critical to your business, especially during the coronavirus crisis. I’m talking about vision.

Megan: Well, Dad, we had envisioned (speaking of vision) something a little different for this episode. This is actually the launch day for your latest book The Vision Driven Leader, and a couple of months ago we had a big party planned for today. It was going to be a whole thing, but clearly, that is not exactly happening. In fact, we’re recording this virtually, not even in the same room with each other as we normally would.

Michael: That’s exactly right. Things are way different than they were a month ago. It feels like we’re in a completely alternate universe. There’s a lot of uncertainty in the air. We’re certainly mindful of that, but I have to tell you, I’m convinced that it is exactly the time we need to be talking about vision.

I don’t know if you remember this scene in the Apollo 13 movie, where things were looking very bleak and one of the NASA staffers says, “This could be the worst disaster NASA has ever seen,” and then Ed Harris, who’s playing Gene Kranz, the flight director, says, “With all due respect, sir, I believe this will be our finest hour.” That’s vision. If you’re a leader, whether in business or the nonprofit sector, your vision matters now more than ever.

So, to guide us through this, we want to bring our buddy Larry on to guide us with a few questions and carry us through this conversation. Hey, Larry.

Larry Wilson: Hey, guys. Good to see you again. These really are some uncertain times. I think we all know somebody who is dealing with a layoff or a business closure, and I’m sure some of our listeners are in that position. It’s a time when most people are thinking about how to hunker down, so is it really realistic for us to be thinking about vision and being a visionary leader when who knows what we’re facing?

Michael: Well, I think it’s exactly why we need vision. First, if you think about it, we need a better future, because it looks bleak right now, and vision is what gets us there. The virus itself is not going to last forever. I’ve been through a bunch of crises in the past. It feels like sometimes it’s going to last forever, but it never does. There’s going to be an end to this, and we’re going to get through it. It’s eventually going to be controlled.

When that happens, we need thriving businesses. We need jobs. We need goods. We need services. We need the economy to hum along. So somebody has to look ahead and see that and then make it a reality. In fact, you have to see it before you can make it a reality, and that’s the leader’s job. That’s your job.

Megan: You know, Dad, I think the other thing is that fear is not going to save anybody’s business. We often hear that hope isn’t a strategy, but you really need a vision and a plan, because fear is also not a strategy. It’s not going to get you anywhere but turned in on yourself, and that doomsday thinking and scarcity mindset is so paralyzing. So, on the one hand, we want you, as we are, to take this threat very, very seriously.

We want you to deal with it, we want you to mitigate your risks, we want you to be prepared, but as a leader, you can’t afford to become reactionary, because fear isn’t going to stop a pandemic. Fear isn’t going to save your business. It’s going to take something else to get to the other side, and that something else is vision. We need visionary leaders to chart a path between where we are and where we ultimately need to get to recover from this thing.

Michael: Absolutely. People need visionary leadership now more than ever. This is true at all levels…nations, communities, businesses, and families. When there’s uncertainty, people look for leaders. In more certain times, maybe you can make the argument that you don’t need leaders quite in the same way, but today we do.

So wherever you’re leading right now, people are looking to you…everybody…the people on your team, the people in your community. Everyone wants to know that something better is possible and that we’re moving in that direction. This is true. No matter what the current reality, a better future is possible.

Larry: I hear you say that, and can I play the skeptic with you for just a second, Michael? Last night, I made a plan for the day, and honestly, that didn’t hold up. I mean, my plans for today are changing daily. Things are changing so fast. So how can we plan for the future when we don’t even know what’s going to happen tomorrow?

Michael: That’s a really good question, and I’ve been answering questions from business owners and entrepreneurs for the last week since we began this. The important thing is to realize you can’t confuse strategy with vision. Vision is the destination. That’s where you’re headed. Even in the best of times, the future is uncertain. Right? But you can still have a destination.

Strategy is the how, how we’re going to get there, and even in the best of times you have to keep your strategy flexible. So, again, the vision is the what; the strategy is the how. No, we don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, but we can envision what we want to create, and then find a way to get there one step at a time, and that’s why vision is so vital.

Larry: Michael, I’d like to talk a little bit about the book itself, The Vision Driven Leader, because it is so relevant for what people are going through today. The full title is The Vision Driven Leader: 10 Questions to Focus Your Efforts, Energize Your Team, and Scale Your Business. I’m curious about those 10 questions. Which one is the key question or the starting question we need to be dealing with?

Michael: The starting question (and the reason I put this one first is because it’s the most important) is…Are you a leader or a manager? Both are important, but there’s a priority. One of the things we need right now is leadership. Managers are more concerned with the now; leaders are more concerned with the future. We have a lot of people working on the now, but we have to have some leaders who give us a vision for a bigger, better future. Both are important, but leaders have to have vision for the future.

Megan: Yeah, because there’s a lot at stake right now and just in the future in general. Vision is critical for recruiting, for taking care of the team you already have. It’s also critical for our product strategy and deciding what pivots you might want to make right now. It’s even important for figuring out how you’re going to navigate what we’re going through and create results in your business, seemingly against all odds, in many cases.

Vision keeps you from jumping into either the wrong opportunity or the wrong strategy to mitigate losses or revenue dips you may be experiencing right now. It also gives you the courage (and this is really, really important) to take risks and make important decisions without having all of the facts. Never before has that been so important. Right? Vision informs the strategy you’re going to take. Otherwise, you’re just trying to be effective, maybe, at the wrong things.

Larry: Michael, we’ve talked about this book before, and I’ve heard you say that one of your reasons for writing it, maybe your primary reason, is that leaders need an easy way to kind of demystify vision. You’ve distilled that into what you call a vision script. Now, is that the same as a vision statement?

Michael: No, it’s really different, but let me back up just a second. The reason I wrote this book was because vision is one of those things most of us aren’t trained on. They don’t teach it in college. It’s not taught in business school. I could only find a couple of books on Amazon that deal with it, and one of them was flat-up wrong, at least in my humble opinion. A vision statement and a vision script are two different things.

First, a vision script, which is what I advocate in the book (and I have kind of a recipe for how you create this), is not a short, pithy statement that’s going to fit on a coffee cup or something you can slap on a tee shirt. It’s a clear, robust statement that can serve as a practical tool, and it’s going to be about three to five pages in length.

Secondly, it’s a template to ensure that you cover the four critical areas in your business. First of all, your team. Yes, the team comes first, because the team is the primary vehicle by which you realize or bring that vision into reality. Then your product. What’s the future of your product? How do you envision marketing? That’s the third area. And then the impact you want to have in the world…your community and the world at large.

Without all of them, it’s not thorough enough to inform strategy. We’re not looking for something that’s like a slogan. A slogan is fine, but that’s not a vision. It’s not enough to excel in product alone, for example, or to excel in marketing. You need the whole thing. You need to think of your business as the ultimate product and it has these four components.

Thirdly, it’s a tool for walking you through the creation of a vision. One of the things I try to do in all my writing and in our podcasts and in everything we do, Larry, is make it like a recipe. You know, deconstruct the process so that anybody, so a mere mortal can walk through it. Being visionary is not a matter of having charisma.

It’s not a matter of having a special gifting or being Futuristic on StrengthsFinder, which I happen to be. It’s none of that. Anybody who follows this process, who follows this formula, can actually do it. So you can translate that dream, whatever it may be, into a clear, inspiring, practical vision for your company, and that’s what the book sets out to do.

Megan: With our clients, we find that many leaders state their vision in a way that really isn’t an adequate tool for leading their businesses. Sometimes they tell us what they have and it’s too vague. Our goal in that scenario is to try to help them make it clearer. Sometimes it’s impractical, and we help them connect it to operations, because it has to be something you can act on. Then for others, it’s really just a project plan. There’s too much detail. We show them how to make it inspiring, to really be visionary in a way that they can draw other people up into a big story and invite them into something that’s compelling.

Larry: Could you give us a little more depth on those four areas and what goes into actually creating the vision script?

Michael: First off, in the book, I guide you step-by-step on how to write a vision. I have some prompting questions that’ll help you flesh this out. I talk about getting into the right head space for visionary. That’s about how to make yourself open to possibilities. That’s sometimes a little bit difficult for people, because we’re used to calculating the risks, looking at the downside, and mitigating those risks. Particularly in a crisis like we’re in right now, it’s easy to look at all the downside. Everything looks bleak, and everything looks dark, and everything looks like a downside.

But we can’t do that. We have to shift our thinking, and even in the midst of this crisis, we have to look for potential upsides, and we have to connect with that vision. So, I give you a checklist for making each part of your vision clear, inspiring, practical, and salable so you can sell it to others, because unless you sell it to others, unless you enroll them in your vision, you’re kind of left to yourself to bring it to pass. You’re going to have to have a team to achieve your dream. So it begins by talking about how to write your vision.

Megan: For each of these four areas…team, product, marketing, and impact…you walk people through a way of thinking about what’s important in each of these areas. For example, the team. You may be thinking in the midst of this crisis, “We’re not hiring anybody right now. We’re trying to keep the people we already have.”

That may not be true for you, but if it is true for you, on the other side of this crisis, at some point you will hire again, and you’ll have access to talent that’s incredible like never before because so many people were shed in the process of going through this crisis. You have the opportunity to build the team of your dreams on the other side of that, so put yourself in that head space as I walk you through some of these questions about your team.

For example, what kinds of teammates do you want to attract? What kind of culture do you want to build in your company? What characteristics do your teammates all share? How do they work? What is their work ethic? What do you do to attract top talent? How does your organization cultivate a winning culture? What’s your compensation philosophy?

What does your office environment look like? Man, I don’t know about you, but I’m just going to be happy to get back to my office. I went and picked up the plants out of our office the other day, and I felt kind of sad about it. I can’t wait to go back. And then, why does this matter to you? Why does your team and the culture you’re building in your company matter?

Michael: This is why vision is so important right now, Megan. This crisis is stress-testing our teams and our cultures, and we’re finding out what we’re really made of. The thing that can change it even now or inform what you do even now is going to be that culture. Like, just before we came on to record this, you were talking about new office hours for our team during this crisis.

You might think, “Hey, it’s all hands on deck. We’re going to work people 24/7. We’ve got to figure it out,” but one of the things we believe at Michael Hyatt & Company is that self-care is critically important, that if we don’t take care of ourselves we can’t take care of anybody else and we certainly can’t take care of the business.

So, you actually have a proposal on the table (this will be news for Larry, because we haven’t made it public yet) of shortening our hours, quitting at 3:00 in the afternoon. That’s being informed by our vision and our commitment to our core values. That’s particularly important in a crisis. That’s where you find out if you really believe what you believe or if it’s just a plaque hanging on the wall.

Megan: By the way, Larry, that’s just one of the many perks of being on this podcast with us.

Larry: It’s kind of exciting. I often tell people, “You want to listen to the podcast, because that’s where you hear things first.” It’s really true.

Megan: That’s awesome.

Larry: By the way, I just want to let you guys know that we’re going to dig a little deeper into the vision script and how it works in a bonus episode with one of our BusinessAccelerator clients who has already put this to work in his business, so check your feed for that. That will be coming up soon.

Michael: We gave an early copy of the book to our BusinessAccelerator coaching clients because we wanted them to kind of stress-test the concept and make sure this applied to a variety of industries, including also nonprofits, by the way. So we had a lot of clients who went through the book and created their vision script for their business. People have been incredibly enthusiastic about this. They were able to say, “For the first time, I have a vision. I always felt I needed one. I felt a little guilty that I wasn’t visionary and I didn’t have anything to share with the team. Well now, I get to show up. I’m the man or woman with the plan.”

So, I think for a lot of people, that gives them confidence. It gives them a sense that they’re leading someplace where they can invite their team to follow. By the way, if you don’t have a vision… The essence of leadership is that you’re leading people to a destination. If you’re not clear about the destination, you’re basically just taking a walk. You’re not really pursuing a vision. A vision is essential for you to have a healthy business, and to be clear about that, even in the midst of a crisis like this, to be clear, to be able to point to a bigger, better future.

I’ve been doing a special training over the last couple of weeks called Confident in Crisis, and one of the first things I share with people in that special training is the Stockdale Paradox. You remember the story about Admiral Stockdale who was in a prisoner-of-war camp for seven years. Years after that, he was interviewed by Jim Collins, who wrote the book Good to Great. He was asked, “How did you survive this?” and he said two things.

First, he honestly faced the most brutal facts of his current existence, which was being a prisoner of war. We all have to do that in this current crisis. But the other thing he said was, “I never lost faith that I would ultimately prevail and this would become a defining moment in my life.” I think that’s what we have to have now. That’s why vision is the lifeblood of getting through this. We have to hold on tenaciously to this idea that there is a bigger, better future out there somewhere. It may take us a while to get to it, but if we don’t hold that out, then people get discouraged. People wonder what they’re working for. People lose hope. They lose a sense of meaning.

Megan: One of the things, Dad, I love about what you’ve done in this book is that you’ve demystified the process. Probably now more than ever it feels essential to have a vision for the future, something you can look forward to, something you can enroll your team in working for when they’re discouraged, but like you said a few minutes ago, it has always felt so difficult to come up with a vision. Like, you had to be naturally gifted at it or you had to be an amazing writer or you just had to otherwise be somehow magically inspired, which few of us are.

I think what you’ve done with the vision script is you’ve made this process kind of like paint by numbers. Certainly, you have to contribute your own thoughts and desires to it, but you’ve made it as easy as possible to draw the connections from where you are to where you really want to be so that it’s doable for people and they can actually create a vision for their company.

Michael: I’ve had a number of clients say that. They said they were skeptical on the front end because they’ve never been really good at vision. They managed to eke out a mission statement, managed to come up with some core values, but when it came to vision, it was so daunting, because they thought to themselves, “Man, if I have to distill this into a simple sentence, I’m just not that clever, that smart.”

So, just the fact that this isn’t a sentence but a three- to five-page document, that you can be a little bit more descriptive, a little bit more verbose, a little bit more detailed, kind of opened up the possibility that, “Hey, you know what? I think I can do this.”

Megan: And because it’s a template, it’s not just three to five pages that are blank. That sounds terrifying if you had to just sit down in front of your computer to a blank screen. It goes step-by-step until you have it done, and it’s not that hard.

Michael: No, it’s not.

Larry: We’re saying that every leader needs a vision, especially now. Let’s give people an idea of how this book will actually impact their business. What will this do for me, Michael, if I get a copy?

Michael: Well, three things. First, it’s going to focus your efforts. Here’s the thing. One of the most important things in execution, if you’re going to execute… That’s kind of the holy grail of business writing, of business performance. Everybody talks about high-execution, high-performance teams. That requires alignment.

You have to have everybody rowing in the same direction. If they’re not rowing in the same direction, there’s going to be a lot of sideways energy, and if you’re not aligned, you’re not going to see the kind of execution you could otherwise. The alignment presupposes a vision. What are you going to be aligned around? It’s that vision. It’s that clarity about where you’re going.

Okay. If you’re into competitive rowing (which I’m not) and you’re in a scull (the kind of boat they use) and there’s a coxswain (who’s the person who’s the leader in the boat), if he’s unclear about the destination… You know, some people may be pulling in one direction. Part of the crew is pulling in the other direction. It’s just not going to work. That’s a lot of sideways energy.

But if the coxswain is clear about where you’re going, it makes it so much easier. You can focus your strategy, you can focus your intentions and your effort and get there faster. A clear vision accelerates your results. It focuses your efforts, it thereby accelerates your results, and it’s a prerequisite to execution.

Megan: Practically speaking, it also becomes a filter. When you have a vision, you all of a sudden know what fits and what doesn’t. So, does this kind of person fit with your vision or not, if you’re thinking about hiring? Does this project feel like it fits or not? Does this opportunity, does this decision you need to make right now in the midst of this crisis…? Is it in alignment with your vision or contrary to it?

As a result, it’s like you’ve kind of done the heavy lifting of decision-making already because you’ve decided what the criteria are. That alleviates a lot of decision fatigue. It alleviates a lot of protracted decision-making. It really gets you moving in the right direction faster, like you were saying.

Michael: One of the interesting things about a crisis like this is that it often forces us to make decisions we’ve been procrastinating. Maybe it was staff people we needed to get rid of or maybe it was products we needed to cut or prune from our product line or services we needed to get rid of, customers we needed to fire, all of that.

Again, the vision of that bigger, better future can be sort of the template or the guide that becomes a filter in the midst of a crisis like this to decide, “Hey, what’s going to be part of our future after this crisis? What do we want to keep at all costs and maintain no matter what, and what at this point is ballast? It’s not that much a part of our future, and in fact, in the present, given the current situation, it may be ballast or drag that’s holding us back.”

Larry: Well, the first benefit we can expect from this book is to focus your efforts. I think that’s critical, especially now when there are so many key decisions that have to be made. A vision helps. What’s the next benefit?

Megan: The next benefit is that a vision energizes your team. There is nothing like a vision, the ability to call people to something that’s bigger than what they’re experiencing right now that’s in the future, to put energy behind your team. If you think about it, every single person on your team has a certain amount of energy within themselves. If you can get them focused in the same direction and then call them to something greater, that is so much power to put behind a vision. You can get the most out of your team when you’re pointing everybody in that same direction.

For example, in the midst of this crisis, one of the most important things to do is harness the power of your team and their energy so you can make the most with what you have. We can’t afford to have everybody going in different directions. A vision points people in the same direction and then gets all their power behind that direction to move it forward, and I think that’s what we have the ability to see right now in a way that is critical, not only to our survival but to realizing our future potential.

Michael: One of the things Andy Stanley says is that vision leaks, and that’s in ordinary times. There are a lot of people you’re trying to lead in the midst of this crisis who are walking around with empty buckets. There is no vision in their bucket. They can’t see beyond what they have to do today, and it’s your job, as a leader, to graciously, thoughtfully refill that bucket with vision and give them hope for tomorrow.

This is not just some “pie in the sky by and by,” some nice, trite thing to say about the future, but this is where we really have to connect people viscerally. They need vision now more than ever. They need it to survive. They need it for the sake of their mental health. They have to have a vision for the future, and it’s our job, as leaders, to keep injecting that vision.

I think I’ve said it on the podcast before, but in the midst of the Great Recession when I was leading Thomas Nelson Publishers through that, I got so tired of hearing myself talk about vision I finally went to my executive coach and said, “I am so tired of talking about vision,” and she said to me, “Well, then you’re half done.” When you’re sick and tired of talking about vision, you’re half done. Why? Because vision leaks. We have to keep pouring it on if people are going to have hope for tomorrow.

Larry: I can affirm that this second benefit, energize your team, is real. That has been palpable here around… I say “around the office,” but around the various places to which we’ve been scattered, because it really is energizing to have somebody come along and say, “Hey, something has happened. It’s a big problem, but here’s what we’re going to do about it. Everybody, this way, team.” It really does energize the team. So, we’re saying the book is going to focus your efforts and it’s going to energize your team. What’s our third benefit here?

Michael: The third benefit… And this may sound in the current moment like it’s irrelevant, but I’m going to make the case for it. The third benefit is that it’ll help you scale your business. In any crisis, in any disaster, in any situation like we find ourselves in right now, there are opportunities. It’s not all downside; there’s some upside…if you can shift your thinking and get to the place where you can see that possibility. One of the best questions you could ask is “What does this crisis make possible?”

Larry, I don’t know if it was you or somebody else who sent to me a Franklin Delano Roosevelt quote that happened in 1933 where he gave this statement that “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” We’ve all heard that quote. We all know it, but what we don’t know is the part of that quote that comes immediately after that, which says we need to “turn retreat into advance.” That’s exactly what a vision will do.

We can’t be on our heels, constantly worried about our loss, trying to protect ourselves. We can’t be playing a game not to lose. We have to be playing a game to win. We have to shift our energy forward and start looking for opportunities. There are all kinds of opportunities in the midst of even a crisis like this to be able to come out stronger, to be able to grow our businesses, to even increase our business.

It’s hard to believe, and if you’re not in a business like this you don’t see it, but there are businesses out there that have been unscathed by the crisis. There are businesses that are growing. Just look to Amazon. I saw the other day they’re trying to hire 100,000 people. I mean, their business is growing. But if you don’t make the effort to try to scale your business or find opportunities for growth, you’re going to go backward.

Business is never static. You’re either retreating or you’re advancing. You’re either going backward or you’re going forward, and just having that shift in mindset changes everything. It turns you into a possibility thinker, a possibility leader. Again, that’s what your people need right now, and that’s what vision does for you. If you can see it graphically, if you can lay hold of that vision and if it’s vivid enough, that’ll give you the energy and the focus to find those opportunities and move forward.

Larry: Well, vision is critical in the best of times. It’s super critical right now, and The Vision Driven Leader is a very practical, helpful resource to help you construct your own vision for the future. The book is out today, and we want everybody to get a copy of that. Michael, I know we’re big on bonuses around here, and we like to reward people for making a great decision, so how can people take advantage of this offer?

Michael: Well, first of all, can I be just a little bit transparent? We are trying to put this book on the best seller list, so we’re trying to get as many copies sold in the first couple of weeks as possible so we can do that. So we wanted to create an irresistible, no-brainer kind of offer, and I think we’ve done that. First, you’re going to want to go to That’s where these bonuses are described and where you can take advantage of them.

So, if you buy one to nine copies (but you have to buy before April 4), here are the bonuses you’re going to get: a free copy of The Vision Driven Leader audiobook. This is me reading the entire book on audio. It’s the same one that’s for sale at Audible, but you’re going to get it free. You’re going to also get a free copy of the Free to Focus ebook, which is my last book about achieving more by doing less.

You’re going to get access to our Vision Coaching private Facebook group with me, where I’m going to be coaching people on how to create their vision in real time. You’ll get a $10 gift card to the Full Focus Store. So, if you’ve been thinking about buying the Full Focus Planner or thinking about buying a new one or want to give one to a friend, this is a $10 gift card.

You’re going to get the Vision Sharing Guide: How to Get Your Team Onboard With Your Vision, which is a video interview Megan and I did and a PDF question guide, and then a 20/20 Vision Kit, which is an ebook with 20 quotes, tips, and ideas to help you have an unobstructed vision of what’s possible, plus 20 samples of limiting beliefs that could constrict your vision paired with 20 liberating truths and a worksheet to put that into practice.

So, that’s if you buy one to nine copies. Now, if you’re willing to buy 10 copies or more… By the way, the reason you would do this is because you want your team onboard. You want to have a common language about vision so you become not just a visionary leader but a visionary company.

Megan: The other thing this would be amazing for, by the way… If you have clients who are also trying to figure out how to lead their companies and teams in the midst of this crisis, this could be an incredible gift to them right now.

Michael: Yeah, good point. So, you’re going to get everything I described in the previous bonus package, plus you’re going to get a vision coaching call, which is a walk through your vision script with one of our Michael Hyatt & Company business consultants, and get personalized feedback. You’ll get a $50 gift card to the Full Focus Store instead of $10, and you’ll get a half-day vision intensive, which is an audio recording of vision training and strategic planning sessions I did with our BusinessAccelerator coaching clients.

Larry: These bonuses are only available through April 4, and actually, of the current week, that’s Saturday, so you have to act fast in order to take advantage of this. Here’s how you can do that. First, buy the book from your favorite retailer. Clearly, that’s going to be an online retailer right now.

Michael: Definitely.

Larry: But it’s out there. It’s in all of the channels. Then go to and click the “Claim Bonuses” button. Complete the brief form, and we’ll email the bonuses to you. And that’s it. Be sure to save your receipt. Go to an online retailer, get the book, and then visit By the way, we’ll put all of this in the show notes at so you don’t have to remember it all. I would say “while you’re driving,” but I’m pretty sure you’re not driving right now.

Vision is a vital resource for every leader, especially during a time of crisis, and you can lead your organization to a better future with a clear and compelling vision. So get your copy of The Vision Driven Leader today. Michael, Megan, what are your final thoughts today?

Megan: Well, if you’re thinking, like many business owners and business leaders and nonprofit leaders, that a vision seems hard, and maybe you’ve put it off for years and years and felt guilty about it, now is the time to do it. There’s no better time and it has never been easier with The Vision Driven Leader and the vision script process in the book. It’s a simple process anybody can do, and your business is counting on it right now. Your team is counting on it. Your clients and customers and the impact you could have in the world are counting on it. So go do it.

Michael: The thing I would say is that most of your competitors, most of your colleagues in your industry are playing a game of defense. The Vision Driven Leader will equip you to play a game of offense in this current crisis so you can come out a winner and not a loser.

Larry: Well, Michael and Megan, I want to thank you for explaining the reason behind the book and its value so clearly, especially now. I think this is really going to help a lot of people, especially this week and what we’re all facing at this moment.

Michael: Thanks, Larry. Thank you guys for joining us, and we’ll see you right here next week. Until then, lead to win.