Transcript

Episode: What Makes Good Coaching Great

Michael Hyatt:
Hi, I’m Michael Hyatt, and this is Lead to Win, our weekly podcast to help you win at work and succeed at life. Megan is off this week and I’m going to talk about business coaching and what makes the best business coaches great. And I’m here with LeeAnn Moody, who is our Director of Coaching at Full Focus. LeeAnn, welcome.

LeeAnn Moody:
Thanks Michael. Happy to be here.

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah, I’m excited about you being here because you are the personification of great coaching and you set the pace for all of our coaches, including me. And I’m sure you’ve had the experience of having some amazing coaches and maybe even a few bad ones, I’ve had both on my side. And so we really want to focus, particularly for business owners who maybe have heard of business coaching or thinking about business coaching, and they’re not quite sure what to look for.

Michael Hyatt:
And so a lot of times people end up in a not so great business coaching relationship because they didn’t have any criteria, and they didn’t really shop it, and they just ended up with the first person that claimed to be a business coach, and then they wonder why they don’t get the results. So talk just a little bit about your experience and kind of how you think about coaching.

LeeAnn Moody:
Wow. Okay. So just a light softball to start. Oh wow, my experience with coaching, I’ve actually been really lucky to have some phenomenal examples and some phenomenal coaches in my life. My first experience with a coach was about 10 years ago. And what really stands out to me about that first experience was the amount of energy that they brought and really left me feeling inspired. And so inspired, in fact, that that planted the seed for me, that that’s what I wanted to become is a coach. And I had finally found that thing that I felt like I was created to be.

LeeAnn Moody:
So fast forward till now, I actually have the honor to spend a majority of my time in my desire zone coaching our tremendous clients in a one-on-one capacity, through our group coaching programs. And also taking this into a corporate setting and really sharing our content, and our tools, and our unique coaching methodology with them has been really a dream come true for me, and something that I love love doing.

Michael Hyatt:
Well, you know one of the things that I found interesting about your career so many people that call themselves business coaches, they don’t really have that much business experience. But you are on a trajectory, a career trajectory before you became a coach. And so this is sort of the cherry on the sundae, but what was your career experience before becoming a coach?

LeeAnn Moody:
Yeah, I categorized my career in three different chapters. I started off chasing achievement as a CPA and I was an auditor in my first first life, first career chapter. And that transitioned into supporting our people, and their performance, and their career development from more of a human capital and talent consultant perspective. This was something that was seen in me as, “Hey, this is actually a better match with your natural strengths and where you excel so let’s take your background of an auditor, and how about you really focus on optimizing our entire team’s performance, and help them get to where they want to be,” which in that setting was to make partner was the ultimate goal.

LeeAnn Moody:
And that actually, I was lucky enough to always work at a company that valued coaching. And I got to experience coaching through our leadership development programs. And like I said, once I was introduced to coaching for the first time I knew, “Hey, I want to be a coach and I want to pursue this really seriously,” and so I did. And I took an intentional step to become a certified professional coach, and look for more opportunities to get to coach. That’s something I’m very passionate about and that led me to Full Focus, the ultimate performance coaching company.

Michael Hyatt:
That’s awesome. Well, we’re blessed to have you. And I can say for myself, I had such a terrific example of my dad who in many ways was my first coach because he led by example. He was naturally curious. He was always learning things. And one of the things that he taught me is that if you want to learn something, learn from the best of the best so buy a book. Buy back in the day a series of cassette tapes on a topic or just interview somebody that’s done what you want to do. And in essence, coaching is kind of like that. It’s more than that. And we’re going to unpack that today, but I think that coaching is such an amazing profession and I’ve tried to.

Michael Hyatt:
I tried early in my career to be successful without a coach and I had certainly some success, but I’ll tell you everything changed when I got a coach. And my first coach, my first executive coach was back in 2002 so two decades ago. Since that time I’ve had three different coaches, but I can honestly say and I don’t say this because we are in the business of coaching, but I would not be where I am today without a business coach. Because coaches help you go further faster. Coaches, the best coaches, help you bring out your best thinking so that you’re not just kind of left to your own devices, but you’ve got a partner, a thinking partner, a collaborative partner in what you’re trying to create. It makes so much sense to have that.

LeeAnn Moody:
That’s so true.

Michael Hyatt:
I want to talk about the characteristics of the best coaches, but before we do that, I’d love for you because you are ICF certified, International Coaching Federation certified. They’ve done a study on coaching results. Could you kind of recount those for us?

LeeAnn Moody:
Yeah. So 99% of companies who hire a coach are satisfied or very satisfied with their decision and 96% say that they do it again. And that’s according to the ICF Global Coaching Client study. And for me, investing in coaching was one of the biggest financial investments that I had made in myself, it was a really big decision for me to take that step outside of college. I mean, that was a really big financial investment and I got stuck in that trap, that analysis paralysis of, “Should I do it now? Should I wait and do it later?”

LeeAnn Moody:
And really, I would never regret it and I wish I had just done it sooner. And that was the advice that I was given is, “Hey, now is all there ever is and there’s no better time than now.” You can sit and think of a bunch of different excuses of why maybe I could do that later on, but I totally agree coaching is so impactful for you and your life, and that’s reflected in this survey that the ICF did.

Michael Hyatt:
It really is. Another statistic that they had in that same study was that the average return on investment was seven times the investment. Again, according to the International Coaching Federation Global Coaching Client study. And some of the specific areas of improvement is people that were in coaching saw increased productivity, increased revenue growth, and better team performance.

LeeAnn Moody:
I needed this stat when I was trying to convince my husband about this investment in coaching.

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, the cost is usually significant. A lot of people do have a lot of hesitation around this, but I think what this tells me is that any coaching is better than no coaching, and there’s certainly better and best coaching. And we want to talk about how to get the best coaching in this episode, but man, I would just say if you’re not in a coaching program, find one. If it’s not ours, that’s fine. There’s a lot of out there that are really good, but find a coaching program for yourself.

Michael Hyatt:
I love this quote that comes from Andy Stanley. He says, “You may be good, you may even be better than everyone else, but without a coach, you’ll never be as good as you could be.” And I think that’s so true.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, business owners can get better results from coaching. If they focus on finding someone with four characteristics and the first one, and I’m going to let you unpack this, LeeAnn. First characteristic of great coaches, the best coaches is that they balance directed and non-directed conversation.

LeeAnn Moody:
First, say more about what you mean by directive and non-directive questions.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, so we have a coaching model that we call the Full Focus coaching model. And I want you to think of three circles that are overlapping in a bit of Venn diagram, except they’re all horizontal. So on the one side you have counseling or therapy, and on the other extreme, you have consulting or teaching. So the way I would look at it and coaching is kind of in the middle, at least in our coaching model that it is something other than those two, but it sometimes overlaps with those two.

Michael Hyatt:
So when I think of counseling or therapy, I think of something that’s typically non-directive that the therapist or the counselor asks a lot of questions, and lets you as the client or the patient do a lot of the talking. Consulting, sometimes teaching, sometimes training is the opposite. It’s more directive. It’s more about giving advice. It’s more about helping people find shortcuts and getting from where they are to where they want to be.

Michael Hyatt:
Our coaching model employs a little bit of both. So there were situations certainly when we want to ask questions and we want our clients to think deeply. Because if they can discover their own insights and come to their own conclusions, that’s going to be more impactful than us simply telling them what to do. But the place at which we are more directive is when we’re coaching around our tools and helping people use our various frameworks and so forth.

LeeAnn Moody:
This combination is what makes this coaching model so powerful because on that left side circle where you’re really focusing on the performance mindset piece, and this is if you think about the behavior and getting the results that you want, achieving your goals, it all starts with your mindset. So having a coach that’s really equipped to meet you where you’re at and understand we are all a product of our past experiences. And a lot of times we have put ourself inside of our own cardboard box and we aren’t even aware of that. And this coach can really tap into helping you see outside of the box.

LeeAnn Moody:
You’re opening up one flap at a time and gaining that new awareness, new perspectives, seeing opportunities that you were not aware of before through performance mindset coaching. And when you pair that with consulting on our tools that have been developed over years, those taking all of the best practices and ideas and the productivity tools, there’s just an entire library of tools that will tap into later. But being able to actually have someone who has that firsthand experience of how those tools have shaped them and shaped their business to be able to consult on that together with a performance mindset. It’s that pair together to me that makes this model so powerful.

Michael Hyatt:
One of the things that we have in that model is we talk about, I mean we say to our clients, “Look, we don’t do therapy and we don’t do consulting.” And here’s what we mean by that. We don’t do specific trauma-related therapy. I think we do have among all of our coaches, we do have one or two that are licensed psychologists, but the rest of us are total amateurs, and so we don’t do therapy around that. So the counseling that we do is merely related to a performance mindset and being able to ask those questions that help people kind of, like you said, from an outside-in perspective of their thinking.

Michael Hyatt:
I just had a client this morning I was talking to and he made this comment about a young person on his team. And he said, “You know, I’d replace him, but I can’t find any young people that want to work.” And so I just said, “Oh, that’s a really interesting comment. Here’s what I heard you say that you can’t find any young people that want to work.” And I said, “Do you really think that’s true?” I just wanted him to stop and evaluate the words that had come out of his mouth. And I think that’s the great value of a coach because they can give you access to your own thinking.

Michael Hyatt:
And in our practice, the typical way that I do that is by listening to the language that people use because their language will typically reveal their thinking. And it’s helpful to have an outside-in look as you described. On the other side when it comes to consulting and teaching, we don’t do industry or business-specific consulting. I had some clients the other day. I said, “As a coach, I’m not going to build your marketing funnels. I’m not going to tell you the best way that you need to get a newsletter out to your audience. I’ve got some experience doing those things, but that’s not what coaching is about.”

Michael Hyatt:
So our consulting or teaching is related to our performance tools. So we went to help coach around a performance mindset and performance tools all for the sake of helping our clients clarify their goals, overcome whatever obstacles they faced, and then assist them in winning at work, and succeeding at life. So our coaching is in service to that outcome.

LeeAnn Moody:
Well, the client is the expert in their own life and in their business, and the coach is the expert in the coaching process. And in our case, our tools that we have access to tap into and it’s really the partnership together that is so impactful. Whenever you combine the coach’s skills that help the client access the wisdom that’s inside of them to build that plan together to achieve the results and goals that they’re after.

Michael Hyatt:
The second characteristic of the best coaches is that they measure what matters and they create accountability. Now, I like to say it this way, LeeAnn, and you may disagree with me and if you do, please say so. I don’t feel like I hold anybody accountable. I just help clients hold themselves accountable to their own commitments.

LeeAnn Moody:
Yeah, you hold up the mirror.

Michael Hyatt:
That’s exactly right because I don’t feel like I can hold you accountable to do something you don’t really want to do. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t want to do it.

LeeAnn Moody:
Yeah. It’s up to the client to get the results and put the work in because you’re going to get out of coaching what you put into it.

Michael Hyatt:
So typically when I will have a coaching call and I don’t have very many one-on-one clients, just a handful just mostly just for the sake of research, but I have a few. And one of the things I will ask them is, “Okay, last time in our session, here’s what you committed to. How did you do?” And so I want them to report in. And sometimes they’ll say, “Well, I didn’t get that thing done.” And I never shame them.

Michael Hyatt:
And what I’ll ask them, I’ll say, “Well, is it still important to you? Do you still think it’s necessary?” And if they say, “Well, yeah, I do. I just didn’t get a chance to do it.” I say, “Well, do you want to recommit to it?” Because it’s perfectly acceptable for them to say, “To be honest, it’s not that relevant now. I kind of felt some urgency about it back then, but now I don’t.” And so again, disagree with me, but I don’t want to hold people’s accountable to something that they’re not motivated to achieve.

LeeAnn Moody:
Mm-hmm. Each one of my coaching sessions starts with a specific goal. What do you want to walk away from this conversation with? And each coaching session ends with a plan to take action. And I like to even after we have that action plan and those next steps clearly identified, I like to say, “Well, what do you want me to ask you at the beginning of our next session?” And I will be surprised sometimes it is something totally I would’ve never guessed. And I like to the point of holding the mirror up, I use their exact words.

LeeAnn Moody:
And the first thing I ask at the beginning of the session was their own words back to them. The mirror is up and then to your point, maybe they did it, maybe they didn’t. Either way, it’s an opportunity to understand why and to gain some new awareness. Before we even start a coaching relationship, I like to understand how the client likes to be held accountable. Do they like that more supportive, gentle approach or super direct in your face? Like what kind of accountability do they need and will set them up for success?

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah, that’s really, really good.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, so second characteristic of the best coaches is that they measure what matters and they create accountability. And one of the things that I wanted to just add to this point before we move to the next one is inside our proprietary coaching portal, we have a place to record both actions and metrics. So together with our clients, we have a way of tracking their actions even to the project level. I mean, it’s not a replacement for Asana or something like that, but things that would be of mutual interest to them and to us, we track inside of the portal.

Michael Hyatt:
And so that when they check it off, we as coaches get notified of that, we can comment on it, or they get stuck we can ask them about it, but then we also track metrics. And so at the beginning of the coaching relationship, typically it may be the beginning of a quarter, it may be the beginning of the whole year is that we’ll find out what metrics are important to them. And we have some suggestions, but what metrics are important for them to track. And sometimes these are not just business. Sometimes these will be personal because one of our core beliefs is that life is multidimensional, and that the personal will affect the professional, and so that all of it has to work in sync.

Michael Hyatt:
So I’ve got clients, for example, that they want to track their sleep because they know that when they’re getting adequate sleep, they’re showing up at work as their best. I’ve got other clients that want to track their exercise or whatever, but we customize that for the client, but we track it together. And I want to be what John Larson calls a benevolent stalker.

Michael Hyatt:
I want to see the results so that I can encourage them and give them atta boy or an atta girl when they’ve followed through and done what they need to do. Or I can also just check in and say, “Hey, I noticed you said you wanted to do this on a certain date and the time has passed. Is there any way that I can help or do you want to talk about this?” So yeah, tracking what matters and then creating accountability

LeeAnn Moody:
And creating an opportunity for a dopamine hit when they get to check that box off.

Michael Hyatt:
Yes, can’t underestimate that. So what’s your Enneagram number, LeeAnn? I should have asked you that earlier.

LeeAnn Moody:
Can you not tell? I am an eight.

Michael Hyatt:
Wow. I cannot tell. You’re very healthy eight.

LeeAnn Moody:
I’m a blended, a lot of three in there, a lot of one. I have a lot of anger though. That’s why I identify with eight. When I’ve been triggered into stress, I go straight to fight and action and anger. So that’s ultimately where I’m at.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, third characteristic of the best coaches is that they equip their clients with actionable frameworks and effective tools. Now, I’ve been in coaching relationships and it’d be interested to get your perspective. I’ve been in coaching relationships where there weren’t really any frameworks or effective tools. And I didn’t think, knowing what I know now, that it was as effective as it could have been. Because I feel like that’s where we get into the shortcuts. The frameworks, the tools are shortcuts to getting what it is that I want, what is my vision, and that this is a way to get it easier and faster.

LeeAnn Moody:
Mm-hmm. If you can go further faster with a coach, then you can go much further and faster with a coach with tools.

Michael Hyatt:
Yes. So what has been your experience? Is it typical for the coaches that you’ve worked with to have their own frameworks and tools? Is that pretty common?

LeeAnn Moody:
What I would say is they have a library of some helpful articles or books or podcasts, but not from my personal experience the depth of the tools like the ones that I’ve seen at Full Focus.

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I’m a little hesitant to say it because I created most of those tools, but I do think that they came-

LeeAnn Moody:
They’re great.

Michael Hyatt:
But they came out of a lot of battles, a lot of failure, a lot of thinking. I mean, hours and hours of thinking. And I think that the frameworks are just part of what is one of my strengths, coming up with a simple way to explain a more complex topic like the coaching model.

Michael Hyatt:
I was getting a little frustrated because some people were saying it’s got to be all directive and other people saying it’s got to be non-directive. And I thought, “Isn’t it kind of a little bit of both? And if so, then how do they relate?” So frameworks are, are helpful if they create a model for reality. But I have to say, too, that frameworks, all frameworks are flawed.

LeeAnn Moody:
Sounds like a different podcast.

Michael Hyatt:
This sounds like a different podcast, but George Box once said that all models are flawed, but some are helpful. And that’s how we think of our tools is that we’re not legalistic about them. We don’t certainly impose them upon people, but we want to share those in the context of a coaching relationship, because we often find that the lights go on when we share a tool and people go, “Oh, that’s why,” and then they get it.

LeeAnn Moody:
Yeah. I’ve really gotten the benefit to see how, to your point, a simple tool pairing with a really complicated problem that a client has a lot of energy around. They really feel stuck. And hey, a lot of people have difficult conversations, especially with an underperforming employee. Check out this feed forward script that will help walk you through how to really approach this conversation in a productive and effective way.

LeeAnn Moody:
I mean, that’s one example from earlier this week that I got to share a tool with a client that I wouldn’t have been able to do without our library of tools. And it took that issue that they were experiencing, and yes, we got to coach through it from that performance mindset piece. But then I also got to spend time consulting and sharing a tool that together is going to really make an impact for her.

Michael Hyatt:
That’s so good. You know, one of the things that we also talk about that’s kind of our overarching tool is the Full Focus system, vision, alignment, and execution. And Megan and I did an entire podcast on this, but I find that’s a great diagnostic. Like I was just talking to another client earlier this week who had an underperforming employee, which is been a common theme the last several weeks. I explained the model, vision, alignment, execution. And they said, “Well, I think it’s all around execution.” And I said, “Okay.” I said, “Have you expressed to them what you expect?”

Michael Hyatt:
Now, this would be alignment. And they said, “Well, yeah, I kind of have.” And I said, “Do you have a job description?” Which is kind of the vision and they said, “Well, not really.” And I said, “Okay, let’s start there” because you have to have a set of shared expectations with the employee. And this model helps us to diagnose where the problem is, and how we can quickly offer another framework to help them get clear.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, the fourth characteristic of the best coaches is that they combine one-on-one coaching with group coaching. Now this could be a little bit controversial because there are people that they’re only experience of coaching has been group coaching. There have been others that their only experience of coaching has been one-on-one coaching. And I certainly in my career have had an opinion about what I think is best. But again, I think this is not an either/or situation, I think it’s a both/and situation, and I think there’s value to both. Now, before you got involved with us, LeeAnn, did you have a point of view on this?

LeeAnn Moody:
So I have a bias towards one-on-one coaching, but I also, I guess what I’m thinking is it’s super customized and personal and it’s going to be totally about me, and I’m going to get further faster if it’s one-on-one coaching. However, I also have seen the power of group coaching. It’s a totally different dynamic and it brings its own unique value. My opinion now is I agree it’s a both/and.

Michael Hyatt:
Good, you can stay then. Yeah. So like to your point, one-on-one coaching, the thing about that is it’s situational-driven and it could be very customized, and very specific to that client. It could be very reactive to whatever they’re going through this week. And one of the problems I had with group coaching in the beginning when we were only doing group coaching is that it didn’t give our clients an opportunity to get the coaching they needed, and the context of their business when they needed it.

Michael Hyatt:
By the same token, what’s great about group coaching is that it could be less situationally-driven and more curriculum-driven so that if you take the premise that there as business owners there’s a certain number of frameworks and concepts and tools that you need to understand, and it’s going to make everything else much easier. This gives us a context for teaching that, but like we teach it when we’re doing our group coaching sessions here in Nashville, one of the things we do, our clients fly in typically in cohorts of 50 or less, and they have a coach that’s taking them through the day, and it’s a full day kind of agenda. And it’s usually a teaching block for maybe 25 to 30 minutes.

Michael Hyatt:
And then it’s an individual exercise, and then it’s a small group discussion, and then there’s time for Q&A, then we take a break and we do it again. And we go through that, loop through that four or five times. But the value of that is that you take information and transform it into application. And then in the one-on-one coaching, you take it up a level and take it to transformation. So that’s always my goal. But the other thing that I love about the group coaching is the pure interaction.

LeeAnn Moody:
Yes. When I think about the value of our group coaching program, it’s so empowering if you are attending your very first intensive, and you’re just swimming in the sea of overwhelm, and you’re sitting next to somebody who … It’s their 15th intensive and you get the benefit of seeing them, and the transformation that they’ve experienced, and you get to have the benefit of them saying, “I’ve been in your shoes, trust the process, this works, and you can do this.”

LeeAnn Moody:
That means that’s a whole different level of empowerment than you can get from a one-on-one setting. And you have the opportunity to benefit from the learning of others from your peers in that community. Now, when I think about the value of the one-on-one coaching, I think about the roadblocks and where people are truly stuck, and they have a whole lot of energy being wasted because of that. And then you get the coach and that one-on-one attention in order to work through that together. And that is the value that I see in the one-on-one coaching.

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah. And just to reiterate the point, we think they work best when they go hand in hand. And so in our program at Business Accelerator, that’s the name of our coaching program, in that program basically our clients come in once a quarter. I meet with all of our clients for kind of a Q&A and a little bit of content every Monday morning, almost every Monday morning when I’m in town. And then they meet with a coach every two weeks and that’s like a 45-minute call every two weeks. And they get the opportunity for that kind of specific input from our trained and certified coaches.

Michael Hyatt:
So it’s best when it goes together. And I think that’s really unique about our program. There may be other programs out there that I’m unaware of and I’m aware of most of them, but I don’t know of anybody else that has a combined approach like that. And I think it’s one of the unique features of Business Accelerator.

Michael Hyatt:
Let’s wrap it up. So what we’ve said here is that there are four characteristics of the best business coaches. What makes them great are the following. They balance directed and non-directed conversation. Number two, they measure what matters and they create accountability. Number three, they equip their clients with actionable frameworks and effective tools. And number four, they combine one-on-one coaching with group coaching. So I guess just to summarize, business is not a solitary pursuit. Every business owner needs a team and one member of that extended team should definitely be a coach.

Michael Hyatt:
You know, if you think about the fact that the world’s best golfers, the world’s best soccer players, the world’s best in anything, almost all of them have coaches. And if you don’t have a coach, why not? It’ll help you go further faster. Okay, so business is not a solitary pursuit. Every business owner needs a team and one member of that extended team should definitely be a coach.

Michael Hyatt:
Just like you have a lawyer, an accountant, a tax professional, a coach should be one of those. The world’s best athletes have coaches. And if you want to perform at your very best as a business owner, you need a coach. LeeAnn, how can people find out more about our program if they’re interested?

LeeAnn Moody:
I really encourage if you’re just thinking that you might be interested in coaching, then schedule a free call at leadto.win/call. I personally know each of the people who will be on the other side of that phone and if nothing else, I promise you will have a great conversation, and you will have taken a step towards gaining clarity on even just that vision that Michael was talking about earlier, considering what you could even gain from working with a coach and what impact that would have for you.

Michael Hyatt:
LeeAnn, thank you for joining me today. Great job. Hope you guys have found this helpful. Until next time, Lead to Win.