Michael Hyatt:
And this is Lead to Win and yes, there’s been a coup. Hi, I’m Michael Hyatt.

Courtney Baker:
And I’m Courtney Baker.

Michael Hyatt:
And this is Lead to Win, our weekly podcast to help you win at work and succeed at life. And you could probably tell Megan’s not with me today because there’s been a coup. Just kidding. Actually, Courtney is our Chief Marketing Officer, and Megan’s tied up doing something, who knows what. But she’s got a big fancy job, and so we’re left to do the podcast. And we’re actually excited about it, because we’ve got an idea we’ve been wanting to try for a long time. And with Megan out of the picture, we actually have free run. And Nick, our producers, is with us, and he’s just egging us on. So, Courtney, why don’t you talk about this idea and kind of what your vision for it was?

Courtney Baker:
Well, we’ve kind of had different iterations of this episode idea. Nick, our producer had the idea. Actually, you have had an idea a couple years ago about doing a whole podcast around leadership lessons from Ted Lasso. You never shared that with me, but you did share it with Nick who then shared it with me. And I looked at Nick and said, that is brilliant. We did not decide to pursue that, but it kind of stuck with me. And so there’s been some ideas over the years of things like this. But then when they talked to me about recording this episode with you, I started to think about, Okay, what are things that Michael and I talk about? Well, one of them is productivity, and we already have an entire podcast about that. And you and I probably certainly could.

Courtney Baker:
I literally said, “I bet Michael and I can have a lot of fun talking about email inboxes.” And I think we could, but we’ve talked about that before. And then I was like, “The other thing that Michael and I talk about . . .” like, organically, when I see you, we usually talk about shows we’re watching.

Michael Hyatt:
Exactly.

Courtney Baker:
Our movies we’re watching and I was like, “Ooh, this is our chance to talk about leadership lessons in film and TV.”

Michael Hyatt:
I am so geeked about this idea because I do watch… I feel like we’re living in the golden age of television. Some people might point back to the 50s or the 60s, but it is epic what is being produced today. And for me to go watch a movie where you only have an hour and a half or two hours to develop a story arc and a plot, I feel like I’m robbed. First of all, I don’t want to sit for an hour and a half or two hours, that’s too long. I want to sit for an hour, but I want to do it repeatedly for multiple episodes so the story can be developed. But I think we’ve got amazing TV. There are some amazing movies that we’re going to refer to, but I rarely watch one of those, Courtney, without thinking to myself, Wow, that’s an important leadership lesson.

Courtney Baker:
Yeah, I totally agree. I think so much of art mirrors life and reality. And so, I think so many times we’re just seeing that in film. And so if you’re paying attention, you’re like, Oh gosh, there is a really great nugget of truth that is applicable in business, in our professional lives and maybe even with our productivity.

Michael Hyatt:
Here’s how it’s going to work. I’m going to kind of set up the clip, or Courtney will set up the clip, and then Nick is going to play the clip. And then we’re going to comment on doing our best to distill from it the leadership lessons that we see in it. Sound good? You good to that, Courtney?

Courtney Baker:
That sounds great. Let’s do it.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay. So, we’re going to play several clips from Ted Lasso. If you’ve not watched that show on Apple TV, it is a must-watch. Now, some of you might be offended by the language and it can get a little bit rough, but it’s an amazing, amazing positive show. And it came out at exactly the right time during the pandemic, and it gave everybody a lift. Because Ted is this kind of naive, super positive kind of failed football coach that moves to England to take responsibility for a soccer team.

Michael Hyatt:
And in fact, he says, when he arrives, he says, “What I don’t know about soccer could fill two internets.” And so there’s this thing that took me about six episodes to get, which is the intro to the show. Now Apple TV has this thing where you can usually skip the intro. And so normally I would do that, but after I watched it a few times, because I didn’t hit the button fast enough, I thought, Oh my gosh, there’s an entire message in the intro. Have you seen that, Courtney?

Courtney Baker:
So this is so interesting. So when we started talking about this, several people that work on our team, when we were kind of chatting about this in Slack, mentioned this intro. And I was like, Where have I been? I did not even notice this. And it’s because I’m skipping it. So I think this is a real hidden gem right out of the gate.

Michael Hyatt:
Here’s the setup for the show. So the intro is like this. First of all, you’ve got the theme song music, and you’ve got Ted, that’s it, in an empty soccer stadium. And you just see one bank of chairs. There’s probably 300 chairs. Ted walks in, and all the chairs are blue. Ted sits down, and immediately the chairs start turning red.

Michael Hyatt:
And so I thought, Well, that’s a clever graphic thing. And then I realized, No, this is talking about the influence a leader has. Because Ted is kind of a voice crying in the wilderness. He’s this person of positive intent who always sees the best in people. And you would think that a guy like that who comes into a very cynical losing team, the soccer team that he’s now the manager or the coach of, has had a history of losing. They’re not that great, and they are definitely not excited about seeing him, this American football coach.

Michael Hyatt:
And he’d actually been hired by the owner of the team’s wife. They went through this brutal divorce. She got the soccer team in the settlement, and she knows that her ex-husband loves this team. And so she wants to run it into the ground. So she hires what she thinks will be the absolute worst coach she could ever bring on. But back to the opening. So Ted goes into that situation, toxic culture, people that are cynical, obstinate, not cooperative. And one by one, those blue chairs start to turn red. He starts to have an influence on them.

Courtney Baker:
I love this intro, and I’m going to piggyback. I’m kind of going to break the order here a little bit, because I think that intro really segues into kind of a clip that I always think about with this show, which is obviously Rebecca, who now basically owns the team. She got it in this divorce. And Ted just starts approaching all of these people that are literally wanting him to a fail. She hired him to fail, but he just keeps coming to these relationships with positive intent. Every time he interacts with them, he’s looking at their actions through the lens of positive intent. And I think the way, what it produces is eventually a relationship.

Michael Hyatt:
Don’t they call that the Pygmalion Effect. Have you ever heard of that?

Courtney Baker:
I want to say yes, because it sounds so smart.

Michael Hyatt:
Well, I think, and we probably should double-check this before we…

Courtney Baker:
Let me check it.

Michael Hyatt:
… leave this in the show. So if you’re hearing this, we double-checked and this is truth. But I think the Pygmalion Effect is when someone is shaped by your perception of them. So in other words, if I see you as a kind generous, warm, competent person. Guess what, you start to become a kind generous, warm, competent person. That’s the Pygmalion Effect.

Courtney Baker:
I just did some very fast Google searching, and I would like to award you with the correct answer. That is correct for the Pygmalion Effect.

Michael Hyatt:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. So I think that’s pretty amazing. And I think as leaders, this is a critically important lesson. You may find yourself, if you’re listening to this, you may be in a toxic culture. You may feel like you’re working with people that are less than competent. This applies in your family with your kids. It applies in all kinds of situations, but how we see people will shape how they develop. And I think that I learned from my executive coach, Eileen, many years ago, this whole concept of standing for the greatness of others. Taking a stand for their potential, seeing in them what they can’t see for themselves. And Ted does that. And it’s just second nature to him, and it’s so adorable.

Courtney Baker:
Okay. So this clip is actually, Ted is bringing… He finds out what Rebecca’s favorite biscuits are. And he starts bringing them to her each day. But this is the first time that he does that. He kind of barges into a meeting to bring her this biscuit he’s made.

Rebecca:
Where did you get these?

Ted:
I’m glad you like them. You know what? I’ll start bringing these to you every morning, called Biscuits with the Boss.

Rebecca:
That really isn’t necessary.

Ted:
Okay. Well, mark this down as the first time we disagree then. Actually, no, second time. Tea is horrible, absolute garbage water. I don’t know why y’all do that. Anywho, we can’t really be good partners unless we get to know each other, right? We’re going to start simple. Real easy, real easy one. We’re going to do first concert, best concert. You go ahead and go first. Go, right off the bat.

Rebecca:
Oh, the Spice Girls. The Spice Girls.

Ted:
Same answer for both? Oh, wow, love that.

Michael Hyatt:
It’s awesome.

Courtney Baker:
God, I love this show. Like even that clip, I’m like, Just keep going, Nick. Keep going. I could just listen to it. I will add on this point, I know we’re talking about this in the context of being a leader and seeing other people with positive intent. And I think that’s certainly what Ted does as he is leading this team. And he eventually, just like those bleacher seats, he turned Rebecca. Becomes such a close ally and friend even. He starts to slowly turn leaders on the team, the media, the fans. Slowly by slowly, you start to see these… Again, we’ll just keep the bleacher seats, turning colors. And I think the first place I really learned about this concept of positive intent was in the book, The Loyalist Team. Michael, do you remember reading that, kind of as a company?

Michael Hyatt:
I do. Such a great book. Then we had Rebecca Teasdale, one of the authors of that book, come in and do a full-day training with us on that topic, and it was so rich.

Courtney Baker:
What’s really great here, I feel like, in so many team cultures, it doesn’t matter where you’re at in the organization. But there are things that we think of like just normal parts of business, like water-cooler talk. Or you might say, like, “Bobby is just driving me crazy. He did X, Y, Z.” And we, kind of in the business world, it’s just like, “Yeah, that’s just normal.” But in that book, it really helps you understand that, when you do things like that, you’re actually the saboteur on the loyalist team and not really using positive intent with Bobby. But I just think Ted Lasso does such a great job, even against all odds, using positive intent over and over and over again to his success.

Michael Hyatt:
You know what’s interesting is that, when we think of leadership, we naturally think of influence. We want to have influence on other people, and we see how it works when it’s negative. If somebody’s negative, that can create a toxic culture, but it also works the other way. But the word influence comes from the same root word that we get influenza. And so, the truth is, we can be contagious and contagious for good. And Ted Lasso’s a great example of somebody that’s very contagious, highly contagious. Everybody eventually, and slowly, gets the disease. And I mean that in the most positive way.

Michael Hyatt:
All right, we have one more Ted Lasso clip that we want to talk about, and I want to set this up. So, one of the soccer team members, one of the players, is named Sam. And I think Sam is from, maybe Nigeria or somewhere in Africa, I can’t remember where exactly. He’s a really good player. But there’s this other player, Jamie, that is kind of the star of the team. He’s super popular, and he is really full of himself. And he’s given Sam some grief, and he is criticizing him and demeaning him and saying ugly things about him on the field. That’s what we would say as Americans, but as Brits, they call it the pitch. So he is on the pitch, and he’s saying these negative things about Sam. And so, at one point, Ted calls Sam over to him, and he says this.

Ted:
Hey, Sam, come here a sec.

Sam:
Coach, I’m sorry.

Ted:
You know what the happiest animal on earth is? It’s a goldfish. You know why?

Sam:
No.

Ted:
Got a ten-second memory. Be a goldfish, Sam.

Michael Hyatt:
That is such a great principle. So let me just unpack it. And I can use Courtney as an illustration. I find that really competent people who are truly excellent at what they do, and Courtney would be a great example of that, sometimes are really hard on themselves. They could be very self-critical, very hard on themselves. And Courtney, I think, from time to time, I’ve seen you be really hard on yourself. And I think that one of the things that really good leaders do is help a person put that in perspective.

Michael Hyatt:
So if it’s a failure, if it’s a mistake or it’s criticism, I think it’s really easy as leaders to get that backwards. And sometimes, and you’ve seen me do this, Courtney, we get something negative on social media and I kind of blow it out of proportion in my own mind. And somebody has to talk me off the ledge. And I think, as leaders, one of the things that we can give to other people is the gift of perspective. And Ted does that for Sam there. And, basically, what he is saying is, “Shake it off and forget it, buddy. Be like the goldfish. Have a ten-second memory, forget it. It’s not worth stressing out about it.” And that’s how most stuff is that we encounter in life. And we’ve got to help one another shake it off.

Courtney Baker:
I think that’s so important, because we talk about that in sports. It’s so obvious, you know what I mean? You know what a slump is, and you also know players are going to play their best when they’re in their heads. If they’re questioning everything they did, or maybe they missed several three-point shots in a game, it’s so important to have that short memory to bounce back. Otherwise, they get in a real slump. But we don’t really think about that very often in work. We don’t think about it as a performance, like you do with a game, where it’s a very real thing that you can, just like with a sporting event, get in your head to the point that you’re not producing your best work because you’re afraid to replicate that error again.

Courtney Baker:
And that’s when it’s almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. You stop taking risk, you stop taking creative endeavors. And then you do, there is the potential that you kind of go down a path you never would have chosen.

Michael Hyatt:
Yeah. I think this can really derail us, but this is where we, as leaders, can help people. So I like to play golf. Not very good, but I like to play golf. And there were two different people that I used to work with that I’d play golf with. One person, I’ll call him Fred, whenever I would go golfing with him, if I would shank a ball into the rough, which I’m wont to do. He would just be like, “Oh, God, that was a terrible shot.” He’d be reinforcing the negative. Or he would say out loud what you shouldn’t be saying out loud. Be like, “Whoa, that was a mess of a shot.” Whatever. Then this other guy, and I will use his real name. His name was Victor. And when I would go golfing with Victor, Victor would always be careful to affirm me on the littlest things I did right. That’s the only thing you mentioned out loud. The only thing he commented on were the things that I did right.

Michael Hyatt:
It gave me enormous confidence. And I played really some of my best golf ever when I played with Victor. When I played with Fred, I went from bad to worse. And I think, as leaders, we don’t sometimes realize the power that we have. Because, like Tony Robbin says, what you affirm and notice, you’re going to get more of that. And I think it’s important, and not as a way to manipulate people, but a way to encourage them and help them be their best self.

Courtney Baker:
I love that. You picked out this clip, and I kind of volunteer to give a little more context since I’m such a Harry Potter . . . what are they called, Nick? Harry Potter, it’s not geek. There’s like an actual name. Potterhead, is that it? Okay, whatever.

Michael Hyatt:
We’re going to hear it from those fans.

Courtney Baker:
So this quote is from Chamber of Secrets, so really early on, second movie. And in this clip, Harry is really realizing that there are a lot of things that he and Voldemort, who… if you haven’t watched Harry Potter or know Harry Potter, read the books, he’s the bad guy, okay?

Michael Hyatt:
I can’t believe you mentioned his name.

Courtney Baker:
I know. In that first movie, the sorting hat is putting the kids into one of four classes. And Harry puts on the hat, the hat wants to put him in Slytherin, which is the class that Voldemort was in. And he tells the hat, like, “No, I want to be in Gryffindor.” And the hat listens to his choice and puts him Gryffindor. And so, again, he’s kind of struggling with, “There are a lot of similarities with me and Voldemort. How do I make myself different? How am I different from him if we have so many similarities?”

Dumbledore:
Why then do the sorting hat place you in Gryffindor?

Harry:
Because I asked it to.

Dumbledore:
Exactly, Harry. Exactly. Which makes you different from Voldemort. It is not our abilities that show what we truly are; it is our choices.

Michael Hyatt:
That’s a really profound quote. And it’s something that, as leaders, we would do well to remember, particularly in a world where we have a whole class of people called influencers. Where charisma is rewarded, where talent takes precedent over character. But I think that what Dumbledore says is so powerful, is that ultimately it’s the choices we make, not the talent we have. And we’ve all witnessed firsthand, or at least secondhand, what happens when someone’s charisma outstrips their character. Or when their talent outstrips their character, and they make bad decisions.

Michael Hyatt:
And it can destroy your leadership. It can destroy and make cynical, the people that have entrusted themselves to you or who are following you. We’ve seen epic failures on social media. We’ve seen it in the church. We’ve seen it in the corporate world. And I like to remind myself periodically that I’m never too old to do something stupid. And I would hate to think that I go through my entire life investing in my family and then make some bad decision at the end, which basically dismisses all of that.

Michael Hyatt:
And I could give real-life examples, but I won’t, of people who made it as decision. Maybe it was about their marriage. Maybe it was about giving vent to something that was part of their lower nature, if I can put it that way, and it basically destroyed everything they’d worked for. And so I think it’s just important to remember what Dumbledore says. It’s our decisions that define us really, not to tell that we’ve been given, but our decisions.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay, let me set up this final clip. And it comes from the television series, Yellowstone. Now, before you send me an email or shame me in your thoughts, I get it. This is probably not family TV, definitely not family TV. This is not even something I can recommend, but I do watch it. And I find it very intriguing. And there are a lot of lessons that you can learn here, okay? So John Dutton is this patriarch of this family that lives in Montana. And he owns hundreds of thousands of acres. He’s built, basically, a dynasty, and he has a daughter by the name of Beth who is a pretty callous, kind of evil, looks like there’s no redemption in sight. I kind of tend to disagree with that. I think that she’s slowly changing over time.

Michael Hyatt:
But regardless, everybody has a story, right? And so there’s a reason Beth is the way that she is. And it’s easy to judge people, as a leader, and particularly to come to quick judgments about people based on their current behavior and not really understanding their story. And I’m not saying you understand their story to excuse it. But sometimes you have to understand the story to heal it. So here’s Beth’s story. Beth had an abortion when she was a teenager that left her unable to have children. And this is the great grief of her life, and it drives a lot of her behavior. And so he has this encounter, John Dutton, her father, has this encounter with his daughter, Beth. And in which he gives a full apology for what transpired during that time. And I want you to hear it, then I’m going to comment on it.

John Dutton:
I’m sorry, Beth.

Beth:
Sorry for what?

John Dutton:
That you thought you couldn’t come to me. That you thought I’d be ashamed or you’d be in trouble for it or whatever you thought. I’m the one safe person in this world that you can turn to, Beth, for anything. It breaks my heart I didn’t make you know that.

Beth:
I know it now. Now is all that matters.

Michael Hyatt:
That honestly makes me tear up as the father of five daughters. But the thing that I love that John Dutton does there, he doesn’t give one of these half-apologies. And I’ve heard a lot of leaders give half-apologies. And it sounds like this, “If I’ve done something to offend you, then I’m sorry.” It’s conditional, it’s like not accepting responsibility or taking ownership of the behavior. It’s just like, if I were to offend you in some way, Courtney, and I just said, “Well, I’m sorry that you’re such a sensitive person. I suppose, on some level, that’s good. But if I offended you, then I guess I’m sorry.” That’s like a half-apology. But he doesn’t do that at all. He takes the full brunt of it, and he doesn’t shame her. He doesn’t condemn her; he empathizes with her. And I can just hear in his voice that genuine fatherly grief that he did something that had a repercussion in her life.

Michael Hyatt:
I mean, yes, there was the abortion and, yes, there was the fact that she couldn’t have children and all of that. But the fact that it was that he was the way he was and that made her feel alienated. And that’s what he’s apologizing for. And I just love that, because I think again, as leaders, sometimes we think, Well, if I make an apology, people won’t respect me. And I used to think this with my kids. I can’t admit that I don’t know what I’m doing . . . which was most of the time, by the way . . . because then they won’t respect me. But it’s just the opposite. When we’re willing to apologize as a leader or as a parent or as a spouse, that’s actually what builds the path back and makes the relationship possible. And you cannot lead people unless you have a healthy relationship where there’s mutual trust. And when mistakes or offenses happen, that breaks that. And there’s only one way to repair it, and that’s to do a full-on apology.

Courtney Baker:
I think this is so good, and it seems so foundational to life. I’m even thinking of my five-year-old that she’ll accidentally hit her fourteen-month-old sister. And I’ll be like, “Hey, just go say you’re sorry. It was an accident. You’re not in trouble. Just go give your sister a hug and say you’re sorry.” Will not do it. It seems innate.

Michael Hyatt:
I know.

Courtney Baker:
At our youngest age, it is so hard for us to learn to lower our pride, to be vulnerable and to use two heartfelt words. And I think, as we continue into our professional careers, I think that compounds. If we haven’t had the practice anywhere in our life, to then try to do it in a professional setting, well, that’s why I think you get these terrible public apologies for things that sound nothing like an apology.

Courtney Baker:
It’s like your PR person just crafted this thing that circles an apology, but is not an apology. When, at the core, I think what he has done in this example is, he’s so vulnerable. Is so present with her in saying that he’s sorry. That it works and she acknowledges that. I want to be curious, Michael, what you would say is the best way? If this is something people have a hard time with, how do you practice this other than just practicing it, you know what I mean?

Michael Hyatt:
Well, I think for starters it means, as a leader, you have to be self-aware. And I think most of us know, you can get callous about this, but you know when you quench somebody’s spirit, when you offend them, when they… I used to have a friend of mine that would say that, when people get offended, it’s almost like a flower closing. Like people are open and communicative and trusting, and then you say something that’s hurtful or shame them or something, and then you just kind of see that close up. And I think, as leaders, we need to be self-aware enough to know, Oh, I just caused that. And to ask forgiveness. And I wrote an article one time called “The 10 Most Difficult Words to Say.” Which are, “I’m sorry. I know that hurts you. Please forgive me.”

Michael Hyatt:
And, I think it needs that kind of formulaic response almost, ‘til we get it so that we include of components. Because there does need to be empathy. There does need to be a point at which we say, “I was wrong.” And not try to excuse it, not try to sweep it aside, not try to minimize it. Because it’s not important what we intended. What’s important is what we did and how the other person received it. And I know there’s been things with my own kid kids, and I’m a little bit further along in life than you are, Courtney. By which I mean I’m way older than you are. But there were things that I know really hurt my girls. And it’d be really easy for me to just say, “Oh, come on. Are you kidding me?” Or to just have forgotten them.

Michael Hyatt:
And I remember one of my daughters coming to me at one point, and she had been going to therapy and she said, “Dad, there’s some things I need to work through with you.” And by the way, you’ll get this in time with your kids. And so I said, “Okay.” And I’d been here before, so I knew kind of what was coming. And she said, “I just felt like, as a little girl, you overlooked me. And all I ever wanted to be was your princess.”

Michael Hyatt:
And so it would’ve been easy for me to say, or to think, “Aren’t you kind of making a mountain out of a molehill?” Or, “Don’t you realize I was busy during that season of life?” Or just start to grill her like, “Well, give me an example.” But I think as leaders and as parents, and they’re not dissimilar, you kind of have to listen to the heart and go, “What I think I did or didn’t do is kind of irrelevant, because how she perceived that became a major milestone in her journey. Something that she felt the need to go get therapy for.” And we have a great relationship to this day, but in that moment, and believe me I’ve done this wrong plenty of times, but in that moment, I had to kind of talk myself through it. Like, “Swallow your pride. Listen. Let her cry.” I started crying with her, and I just said, “I am so, so sorry. Will you please forgive me?”

Michael Hyatt:
And by the way, I do like asking the question, because I think that it gives the other person an opportunity to release you. And I had another situation with another one of my kids where I said, “Would you please forgive me?” And this was after they were adults. And she said, “I’m not sure. I’m going to have to process this.” And I said, “That’s okay.” I said, “You take all the time you need. I just want you to know how very sorry I am. And I’d be grateful if you could get to the place where you could forgive me.” And she did.

Courtney Baker:
I think there’s two things that you just said that, even for my own personal development as a leader and as a mother, that I want to… Because I think what you said there is, “Swallow your pride and listen.” Even having to internally coach yourself. If I can just remember those two words, because it is so hard in the moment. Gosh, even you telling that story, I just feel the emotion of it and how hard. It’s almost hard for me to hear tell it, I can’t imagine actually being the one to experience it, how challenging that is. But I think that’s the key here in whatever setting. Is having to swallow my pride and listen. And that’s so much harder to do than say.

Michael Hyatt:
Well, it’s very counterintuitive, because we think if we have to do that, we’ve failed. And I think it’s just part of life. It’s inevitable that, as we go through life, we’re going to offend, we’re going to get offended. It’s just human nature. It’s just iron sharpening iron. But, fortunately there’s ways to repair it, and we can always ask forgiveness. We can always apologize and give a full apology. And I think, as leaders, it’s one of the most important skills we can develop, because if we’re leading and if we’re out to accomplish great things in the world and have a transformational impact under the people, there’s going to be sometimes that it’s the opposite. That we do some damage, and we’ve got to cover from that.

Michael Hyatt:
Okay. Well, I think we should wrap it up. This has been fun, even though we kind of ended on a sober note. I don’t think it was a downer, but this has been fun. I am so grateful, Courtney, for you coming up with the idea.

Courtney Baker:
Well, truly it was really your idea long ago that I recycled. But it was really fun. Thanks for letting me be on the podcast today and to join you over here on Lead to Win. We would be super curious to hear from you all to know what is your favorite leadership lesson that you’ve learned from film or TV recently. You can share those with us on social media. We’ll have links to those in the episode. And let us know, do you like this type of episode? Did you find this fun or not? We would love to hear that too. So definitely share that as well.

Michael Hyatt:
All right. Well, let me just finish by saying that there are leadership lessons everywhere if you’re looking for them. So stay alert, be awake, keep looking for them. Life is a great learning lab, but until next time, Lead to Win.