Megan Hyatt Miller: Hi, I’m Megan Hyatt Miller, and this is Lead to Win, our weekly podcast to help you win at work and succeed at life. Joel, my husband, our chief product officer, is back with me today. I’m so excited he is here. I love it when Joel joins me on the podcast. We are going to be talking about something that is really important at Michael Hyatt & Company: how to build a culture of good ideas. It’s kind of an easy thing to take for granted if you’re already doing it, but it might be really mysterious if you are struggling with it, but as it turns out, it’s a whole thing. Right?

Joel Miller: Yeah. I like to think of it as sort of the difference today between the difference in, like, the 1950s. You think about a Disney movie, like The Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit, or something like that, and you have basically this adman cooking up ideas. He’s the most creative person in the entire business. Everybody else is just selling the equivalent of Alka-Seltzer. There are businesses that are very one-dimensional, and that’s an old picture of business. New business, it seems like, is incredibly dynamic. I mean, even Maytag is dynamic these days compared to what companies used to be. That means ideas. If you don’t have ideas, you’re dead.

Megan: Right. This is really important as we think about leadership, as we think about scaling a business, because usually, what gets us into leadership or being a business owner is our ability to be that idea person, but if we’re scaling and we’re going to successfully scale, whether that is in an individual team within a larger organization or an entire business, we have to go from being the only idea guy or gal to leading a conversation with a lot of idea people. That’s a whole other thing, and it doesn’t just happen by accident. There are certain things you have to do and not do to set the stage for that kind of culture or you’ll undermine it unintentionally.

Joel: That’s really true. You have to recognize that, as an individual, when you have ideas, there’s this little committee in your head that is operating. You have ideas you’ve learned in the past. You have assumptions or prejudices you hold on to without even thinking about. You have all kinds of new learning. All of these voices in your head are busy fighting with each other, arguing with each other, collaborating with each other, coming up with new ideas.

When you expand that to a new group of people, you have to recognize that the same basic dynamic is going to happen. There are prejudices. There are assumptions. There’s new learning. There’s stuff that hasn’t been integrated yet. There are all of those crazy loose threads, and they have to somehow come together and be turned into something. That requires some intentional work. You might do it in your own head without even thinking about it, but the minute you expand it to multiple heads, you have to think about it.

Megan: It can get a little messy. Well, today, we want to show you four ingredients that will enable you to create a big idea culture on your team or inside your organization. All right. The first ingredient in building a big idea culture is to embrace audacious thinking. This is a big one. It’s really, really important, Joel.

Joel: Run-of-the-mill ideas are not that useful. When you think about what everybody else is doing, if you want to do what everybody else is doing, that’s great, but now you’re competing against everybody, and you’re not going to have the advantage of an evolution in thinking or development in thinking of new thoughts.

The way you get new thinking is to push the edges of the thinking you have. There are a lot of ways to do that, but one of the simplest ways is to go extreme, to just say, “What is the craziest version of this? What’s the most extreme version of this? What’s the exact opposite of the thing we’re thinking about?” There are these frames or things you can use to kick the boundary of something farther out. Audacious thinking, countercultural thinking, is critical.

You may always come back. Once you’ve pushed it as far as you possibly can, you may bring it right back, but it showed you what was possible, maybe. It showed you a better path, maybe. Like, when you think about those crazy fashion shows that happen in various cities that everybody looks at on Twitter or People magazine, or whatever, and says, “I would never wear that.” Well, obviously. That’s not the point of that show.

The point of that show is to do something completely outlandish that would never be done but which does give you, maybe, an inch in a different direction that could be done. Same thing with concept cars. Like, if you’re Detroit, or any other auto manufacturer, you’re working on concept cars that will never be driven, but they are concept cars. They are cars that are designed to stretch your thinking about what’s possible with an automobile.

That’s what we need in business and leadership in general. We need concept concepts. We need theories that are new and different and stretch the bounds so you can begin to see what the bounds really are. Most of the bounds in life that we experience are completely arbitrary, and if they’re not completely arbitrary, they’re completely imaginary. You might as well see what’s possible.

Megan: When I think about this and how we do this within our own organization, I think one of the things we’ve done that has really worked that is true culturally, because it’s part of this big idea culture, is that there are no sacred cows. What that means is when you’re trying to get people to embrace audacious thinking, one of the biggest obstacles to that is people think their best ideas are the ones they’ve already shared.

So, this product, this way we deliver a service, this marketing campaign, that copy I wrote…whatever it is…I mean, that’s brilliant. So then they go into this mode of self-protection. You sit in a meeting, for example, and it’s a lot about people defending their territory or their ego, like, that’s the conversation under the conversation.

One of the things we’ve done really well at Michael Hyatt & Company is that we have encouraged a culture of collaboration where everybody works together and it’s not about your individual contribution, necessarily, or your ego, but we’ve also said, and I say a lot (I think this has to happen at a leadership level, so if you are the leader on your team or in your organization, this is important), “Hey, that’s just the best idea I’ve had so far” or “You know what? There are no sacred cows in this conversation. There’s nothing we can’t mess with or break down or reconsider.”

Obviously, if there are implications to people, we’re always conscious of that, but I’m not really talking about that. We’re just talking about ideas. If people feel like they have to tread lightly because your ego may be bruised as the leader (and you have to set the stage with this yourself), then they won’t do it. You have to lead by example in this, as with everything else, to make people know there are no sacred cows. “We embrace audacious thinking.”

Then, when people bring up some crazy idea, “What if we completely sold that part of our business or we killed that product or we started this new thing?” and inside you’re like, “Oh my gosh! That’s too much,” you have to consciously, as the leader, encourage that moment. Like you said with the concept cars, even if you don’t end up implementing that idea, the fact that they were willing to say it, that they were willing to be irreverent in their consideration of the past in that moment and what was in place… It needs to be encouraged or you’ll shut it down. It’s really important.

Joel: Just practically speaking, one of the ways I do this in meetings… For some people on our team now it happens often enough that they joke about it. In a meeting I ask, “Do we still believe that? Do we still like that?” I ask that about almost everything. That’s why people laugh at it at this point. So now I just have to come up with some new way of asking that question. This is a slightly more theoretical way of saying it, and then we’ll try to apply it more directly.

Every instantiation of an idea, every expression of an idea, is fitted for the time it was given. So, if Moses comes down from the mountain and speaks to the people, he speaks, and that’s an instantiation for that moment. Years and years and years and years and years later, Ezra comes back from captivity in Babylon and brings up the people, and he has to do it again. Everything has to be reiterated, everything has to be redone, and there are going to be changes along the way.

There’s going to have to be an interpretation of things. There’s going to have to be an adjustment of things to the new context. This happens in every idea you have in business. Let’s say we’re talking about a productivity system, like Free to Focus, or a goal-setting system, like Your Best Year Ever. Those have to be updated from time to time, and they have to be updated because there’s new research. There are new contextual issues people are facing in their workspace. There are all kinds of new things happening in the environment that need to be addressed.

So, every particular instantiation of an idea, every expression of an idea, is only fitted for that time. What that means is it’s always subject to change. It’s always subject to being updated. It’s not sacred because it’s not sacred. It’s just fitted for that time. There are no sacred cows because the cows were never sacred to begin with. We just recognize we’re going to always have to be updating this stuff, because if we want to be relevant to people, if we want to have a valid application of an idea to their particular experience, it’s going to have to be fitted to that experience. It’s going to have to be newly appropriated to that experience…applied.

Megan: I love that. I think there’s so much freedom. I hope you can hear the excitement in our voices as we’re talking about this. What we know from our experience is what it feels like to be in a conversation and watch, for example, newer team members have a conversation where there is audacious thinking and realize, “Hey! Do we still believe this anymore?” and how freeing it is to realize we might not still believe this anymore, and it might change everything. Or we do because it does stand the test of time, and absolutely we still believe this. There’s a certain amount of freedom that sets the stage for the kind of creativity, that big idea culture, we’re really looking for. So I love this.

Okay. That’s the first ingredient: embrace audacious thinking. The second ingredient is to encourage vulnerability. This goes hand in hand with this idea of audacious thinking, because to be audacious is to depart from what is expected, what is considered normal, and that’s inherently vulnerable.

Joel: It’s risky.

Megan: Yeah, it’s risky. People could think, “That’s stupid. Who does she think she is? That would never work.” There are so many objections, probably all of which are running through your own head before, during, and after having shared an audacious idea with a group, especially. It’s hard enough to think it yourself. So, how do we encourage people to take those kinds of risks culturally? Joel, talk about how you do that on your team.

Joel: Well, let me just give an example of how this pops up from time to time. We had a brand called The Focused Leader that we went to a great deal of trouble to build. We purchased IP for it that was preexisting in terms of branding. We created all sorts of new assets for it. We adjusted a lot of content to fit it. We did all kinds of stuff to make this work. We created a live event, and we did a bunch of other things.

Once we had gotten going on it for a while, we realized it wasn’t doing what we wanted it to do in the way we wanted it to do it, so we decided to kill it. In the deciding to kill it, that was audacious. “Okay. Here’s this big idea we’ve had that we’ve been working on that we’ve been using for a while, and we’ve now taken a second look at it (a third, fourth, fifth look at it) and have decided it’s not really part of our future the way we want it to be. It’s not serving our needs the way we want, so let’s kill it.”

Well, to express that idea, “Maybe we should kill it,” requires audacity. It requires some risk. It requires the person who’s speaking it to trust they’ll be okay in voicing something like that, but it also requires that people whose ego is wrapped up in that be vulnerable too, to know their idea may not survive. If we can all recognize that… And this is what I try to encourage my team to think.

If we can all recognize our best thinking is fitted for the moment and is not necessarily for all time, or even if it is… Let’s say it’s fundamental, foundational, true. It’s good for all time. It still needs to be applied in new ways. It still needs to be adjusted and addressed to new audiences. If we can just recognize that, then we can all have some faith, we can all have some trust that when we express those audacious ideas, people will take us seriously and won’t be self-protective.

As you know, Moses, our “too cool for school” 13-year-old, would say, “If your idea is trash, then you should get rid of it.” We need to recognize that sometimes our ideas are not what we think. They’re not as good as we think, or even if they are, they just don’t fit the moment. Unless you have cultivated a sense in which everyone on the team knows they’re pulling for each other, that they’re for each other, then you can’t be vulnerable that way, and then you’ll never get the big, audacious ideas.

Megan: I think this is about affirming people when they do share audacious thinking or when they’re willing to question their own assumptions or ideas and even acknowledge the feelings of vulnerability that come up when that happens. Like, “Ooh, this is a little uncomfortable” or “This could easily make us feel a little insecure right here, but that’s okay, because you know what? It’s just our best thinking until now. There was a lot of hard work in it, and that was valuable, but our best ideas are the ones that are coming in the future.”

Joel: One hundred percent.

Megan: Just to reaffirm that, again, if you’re the leader, to set the tone is really important. I had a situation happen recently where we were doing some long-range planning as an executive team, and we were specifically thinking (because we’re going to be building a building, a new headquarters, here in the next couple of years), “What do we think our team is going to look like in five years?” for example. That’s an important thing to know if you’re going to build space for those people.

I had come up with what I thought was a pretty good way to think about it. It was a little different than what we have now, but it was really going to be exciting. I shared it with the executive team, and they were pumped about it. Well, I went on sabbatical, and as always happens when I’m on sabbatical, people have breakthrough ideas we didn’t even think about before I left.

So, it got changed while I was gone, and then it got presented to me by the executive team, like, “Hey, we kind of took what you came up with, but then we iterated on it, and here’s what we think would be even better than that.” What was so awesome about that was the audacity, first, but also the vulnerability it took to come back to me, as the CEO, and say, “Hey, you had this idea for something, but we had an even better idea.”

I had a real choice to make in that moment, because the knee-jerk reaction I had was, “Wait. That was a really good idea I had,” but the truth is I know, because I’ve seen this happen millions of times, that the best ideas don’t always come from me. In fact, they usually don’t come from me. My job is to set the stage for a conversation where great ideas can happen and facilitate that, not to be the originator all the time of the best ideas. So, I chose to affirm that, and then I had one of my executives come to me and say, “Hey, I know we kind of messed with what you had, and I just wanted to make sure we’re okay.”

I was like, “Absolutely. I love that you guys thought out of the box, that you were bold enough and vulnerable enough to come share that with me. The truth is what you came up with is a better solution for the future. What I came up with was necessary to get us to what you ultimately came up with, but that’s its true purpose, and that’s okay with me. I don’t need to be the last word or be right in that moment.” That’s such a great example, I think, of this idea of encouraging vulnerability as one of the ingredients for a big idea culture.

Joel: The way I like to think about it is this: Your best thinking got you to now. Are you satisfied with now? Nobody is satisfied with now. Everybody wants to go someplace else, which is to say your best thinking is not enough. So, if your best thinking got you to now but you’re not satisfied with now, then you’re going to need new ideas. You’re going to need new thinking. Those two things are true both together, and that’s empowering, actually.

Megan: All right. The first ingredient as a reminder to building a big idea culture is to embrace audacious thinking. The second ingredient is to encourage vulnerability. The third ingredient is to normalize experimentation. This is maybe the hardest one. Don’t you think, Joel?

Joel: Yes, because, let’s just be honest…nothing works. When nothing works, what that means is you’re constantly having to adjust and make tweaks and all of that.

Megan: What do you mean by “nothing works”? Because people are listening to you, and they’re like, “Hey! A lot of things are working.”

Joel: I don’t mean nothing works in the big sense. I just mean nothing works automatically. Almost everything requires vision on the front end. It requires alignment in between, like, keeping your team going on something, making sure the settings are right, making sure you have the right people in the right place…all of those alignment questions, all of which are, honestly, sometimes difficult, sometimes easy, but always necessary. Then, finally, execution, where there are 52 different ways to go wrong on any given day, and you need all of that working together.

So, when I say, “Nothing works; everything goes wrong,” I mean there are always challenges. An attitude of experimentation says, “I don’t expect this crazy, audacious idea you just had to be simple and obvious and work immediately, necessarily. We’re going to have to try it out. We’re going to have to apply it some way on some limited scale. Or even if it’s a big scale, we’re going to have to do it knowing we’re going to have to make adjustments.”

Megan: I feel like the anti-ingredient here would be perfectionism. The enemy to this big idea culture in this particular ingredient would be perfectionism. “Sure, we want new ideas, but we want them to work flawlessly. We don’t want them to ever be embarrassing. We don’t ever want any kind of failure to be associated with them. We want to just make sure they’re good from the beginning,” which, of course, is not how big ideas work. The nature of big ideas is that you don’t know if they’re going to work or not until you try them, and you have to try them to find out, in many cases. Failure has to become something you expect and even embrace as part of the experimentation process.

Joel: One hundred percent.

Megan: When we are experimenting and iterating, there will be little failures along the way. Our job, as leaders, is to decide…What does that failure mean? Does it mean we’re not that good at this? Does it mean we shouldn’t try this kind of stuff anymore because it’s too risky? Or is it information for how to be better in the future? Is it information to make this audacious idea really amazing, really transformational?

Or maybe, if it’s a complete failure… And believe me. We’ve had some of those. That’s just the nature of innovative, big idea thinking and culture. Those ideas that don’t work always end up being the seeds for something else that’s even better, and you look back on it and you’re grateful for those “failures” in the past.

Joel: Yeah. Fundamentally, failure is information. It doesn’t communicate a whole lot, but what it does communicate is information. You get to interpret that and use that information as you want. Some people may use that information to say, “Well, I’m a failure” or “This whole thing won’t work,” or whatever. Other people will look at whatever the information is and say, “Ah! This means we need to adjust here. This means we need to go and invest here,” whatever those adjustments are. Then that will be the thing that ends up producing success.

Experimentation does something that is fundamental to moving through the world successfully, and that is providing you feedback. If you don’t get feedback, you cannot adjust. You can’t even act. So, experimentation is just a way of acknowledging… In fact, let me just back up. This is why we’re saying normalize experimentation. Normalize the fact that this is rough, that this is first drafty, that this is not perfect.

I remember reading an expert on self-publishing way back in the day before that was easy whose name was Dan Poynter. He was talking about authors who never finish their books. I have never forgotten this. He said, “As soon as the book is 95 percent done, it’s done.” That was a really liberating thought, and I have retained that thought ever since, because it means something foundational about this idea of experimentation, about this idea of failure, about this idea of new ideas.

They’re never going to be 100 percent. They’re never going to be perfect. Without the information you’re getting from actually launching, from actually shipping, from actually publishing, from actually doing whatever it is you’re doing, you’ll never be able to finish. So, normalizing experimentation is just part of proactively taking big, audacious ideas and doing something with them.

Megan: Okay. I have to have a little confessional moment. You’re my husband. This feels appropriate.

Joel: Oh no. Yes.

Megan: This one is hard for me, not because I am exactly a perfectionist… I’m trying to think if people would say I was. I definitely have perfectionistic tendencies. I think this is hard for me because of the second ingredient, encouraging vulnerability. I am fine with other people’s vulnerability. I struggle with my own vulnerability around this.

I think this might be a curse of being a visionary. I always see the gap between what something could be and what it is today. By the time it gets brought to life in physical form, whatever that is, I’m already two years ahead in my thinking. It’s like I think everybody else can see it through the lens of my imagination and see what’s missing.

This is, by the way, something I think is a superpower for me and also can be dangerous if I’m not self-aware about it. It’s a superpower in that I can see something in the future (futuristic is my number one strength in the StrengthsFinder assessment), but also, I can get really defeated and even feel badly. It can be a shame trigger for me that things are not what I want them to be in the present. You know this better than anybody, because this is true personally, it’s true professionally. I can really struggle with this, and it can be very frustrating.

I don’t know if anybody else listening relates to me in this. Maybe it’s just me. But this can be hard for me, and I have to remind myself, as I’m watching things launch or are out in the wild now that were at one time big ideas in the incubation stage but are not in the future version in my head, that that’s okay, that we’re always iterating. We’re never going to get there. That’s not the point. The point is to always be thinking audaciously, always be encouraging vulnerability in ourselves, and to normalize this experimentation process and the failure that goes along with it, or that gap kind of experience.

Joel: Yeah. I have a similar version of that challenge, which is that, as an editor, I look at almost any text we are working on, even that I’m reading, and I see the problems with it. I always know how to make something a little bit better, if not a whole lot better. In order to not discourage my own teammates, sometimes I have to say, “This is great,” and then not finish the sentence with “And next year, we’re going to make it even better when we do these 15 things to it.”

Megan: Because they’re working behind you in this imaginative process of thinking. You’re on the very front end, and by the time your team is executing, they’re months or sometimes even years behind you in the process. For them, it’s the big idea today. For you, it was the big idea a year ago or six months ago or two years ago. So, it is important to be careful not to discourage people with our words.

Joel: A hundred percent.

Megan: Okay. That was the third ingredient: normalize experimentation. The last ingredient to creating a big idea culture on your team or inside your organization is to prioritize research and development investment. Basically, what I mean by this is that it’s very easy, as a leader, to have this mindset that’s all about execution in the present. We’re just going to try to execute on this quarter’s goals or this year’s goals, and we don’t have time to mess with the stuff that doesn’t have maybe a revenue implication in the positive for this year.

So, we unintentionally, oftentimes, discourage people from thinking out of the box, thinking out of this year’s budget, thinking out of what they’re working on currently. If we’re going to get to the future, we’re going to need new track laid to get there, and somebody has to be working on that track. So, I would love to hear, Joel, from you how you have your team, the people who are charged with helping to generate and flesh out ideas for our future, engaged in research and development on your team.

Joel: This kind of goes back to experimentation. They’re related in that R&D (research and development)… Experimentation is part of R&D. It is a way in which you are learning, and that learning may not have an immediate application or the application may be something you can’t do something with right away. Let’s say you have funding reasons why you’re not going to move forward on something right now, but you are definitely going to do it later, and you have to continue working on something in order to be ready for that when that happens.

There are any number of times in which that kind of decision will come up or that tension will come up, but it’s an important tension. If you think about what you’re doing in a business with big ideas… You are trying to take something that doesn’t exist yet and bring it into existence. We’ve already stated that it’s going to require vulnerability and experimentation because you’re not going to get it perfectly right right out of the gate. You may not ever get it right in terms of its final form, because if it’s final, it’s probably dead. It’s going to keep on developing and keep on growing.

What that means, practically speaking, is that people are going to be spending time, head space, energy, and resources from the company developing things that are not ready to launch tomorrow, that are not ready to launch six months from now, that are not ready to launch a year from now, that may never launch, in some cases, but the groundwork was needed in order to get to the next thing, whatever that next thing was.

That requires a willingness from the company to say, “Yeah, I want you to spend your time there. Yeah, I want you to put your thinking in that. Yeah, I want you to have a meeting…” For instance, we have a meeting once a month called “What We’re Learning,” where the content team, the product team, just gets together, and we talk about what we’re learning.

If Larry, one of our writers, is learning something and Hannah, another one of our writers, is learning something and it would benefit Hannah to know what’s in Larry’s head, there has to be a mechanism to get it from Larry’s head to Hannah’s head. Now, we may have that meeting and nothing happen. Hannah may get nothing out of Larry that time, but if we don’t have that meeting, that chance for that to happen goes away.

Then, all of a sudden, the chance connection Hannah could have that may be the next big idea, that may be the kind of adjacent possible for her audacious thought, she doesn’t get, and then the company loses. So, you really have to have in that kind of tension of the payoff is now or the payoff is in the future… You have to manage that tension by saying, “We’re going to facilitate these kinds of investments of time and attention (or whatever) to make sure you’ve done the groundwork for the big idea.”

Megan: I love that. I see this in multiple places in our company. Another place where this is happening is on the executive team. We meet on a weekly basis for about two to two and a half hours where we just talk about whatever is important for the week. Usually at a big-picture level we’re talking about things. What we realized was even that’s not enough, that what we actually need is space and time to think about big ideas with uninterrupted time.

You know how you have a meeting and you’re like, “That is so important to talk about; we need half a day” or “We need a day for that”? So, what we’re going to experiment with (and at some point, we’ll report back on this on the podcast) is we’re going to go away, as an executive team, once a quarter for about three and a half or four days, and part of that will be a quarterly preview process for the business that we’ll do together, both for the company but also as individual leaders.

Then the other part of that is going to be big idea time, and we’re going to talk about ideas that are important to our future but have a two- to five-year time horizon…things like organizational design, product development, vision…things that certainly we talk about at strategic planning, but unless your strategic planning process, especially the front end of it, lasts for weeks and weeks, you probably don’t have the time to have lengthy conversations like that at your leisure.

So, we’re going to pick two to three topics from a list (we’re actually going to do this in another week) that we’re going to be talking about. I have now about 10 or 12 things that, over the course of the next year or so, we’re going to dig into that are really important, big idea topics. We want to make space for those kinds of conversations.

I think there’s an application for this at the visionary leadership, at an executive level or executive committee level. I think there’s room for this on an individual team level, at a functional level, on your product team or your marketing team or your finance team or wherever else. Maybe it’s not several days. Maybe it’s just a conversation that lasts a couple of hours once a month or once a quarter.

But how can you give people permission and then encourage that? Also, how can you resource things they’re interested in, whether that’s buying courses, books, or professional development. Like you said, Joel, things that don’t have immediate application to the business today but may for tomorrow. I think that’s really what we’re talking about here with prioritizing R&D.

So, today we’ve been talking about the four ingredients you need to create a big idea culture on your team or inside your organization.

1. Embrace audacious thinking.
2. Encourage vulnerability.
3. Normalize experimentation.
4. Prioritize R&D.

Joel, any final thoughts on what we need to be thinking about with regard to creating this kind of big idea culture on our team?

Joel: I think business leaders, organizational leaders of any kind, need to fall in love with ideas and what ideas represent. When we talk about vision, when we talk about alignment, when we talk about execution, behind every one of those concepts are ideas about how to do them or how to think about them. Our success comes down to how well we conceptualize those ideas, how well we’re able to think through those ideas and then come up with means of applying them.

To create a big idea company, a company that is good at doing this, is to create a company that is ready to scale, that can successfully scale no matter what happens in the marketplace, because everything changes. Fifteen minutes from now, the world will be different than it is right now. Heraclitus said, however many millennia ago, “You don’t step into the same river twice.” The reason that’s true is that is fundamentally true about nature, about the existence of humans in this world.

That’s true for businesses too. That means if you want to have a business that’s ready to step into a different river every time you need to, you need to have big thinkers on your team. You need to have cultivated a love for ideas and how they apply and how they can reapply and newly apply and stretch and bend and all of the other things ideas have to do to successfully get across your next river.

Megan: Well, Joel, we have Heraclitus. We have Old Testament references. Guys, I promise you this is just a regular day in the life of being married to Joel Miller. It’s never boring, and the references are diverse and plentiful. That’s what I can say. Joel, this has been so much fun to have you on the show today, and I can’t wait to have you on again soon.

Joel: Thank you so much. I love this show, I love doing what we’re doing, and I love you too.

Megan: I love you. Guys, I hope you’re inspired to build a big idea culture on your team. I hope you’re ready to fall in love with ideas, because it is really fun to work in a company where this is characteristic of your culture. I hope you’re inspired. I hope you’ll implement these ingredients into your culture soon and let us know how it goes. I can’t wait to see you back here next week. Until then, lead to win.